This inaugural Ms.Behaved episode starts a new series about women and religion by asking whether Eve was set up in the Genesis creation story. The hosts and guests share how they left or never joined religion, then take a caller’s questions about whether Jesus existed and what evidence backs the Bible’s claims about him.
Was Eve framed in the Genesis creation story?
The host argues that the creation story is unfair to Eve from the start. He says the tree and the snake could have been put anywhere, yet both were placed in front of the first humans, and the snake was allowed to talk to Eve. Nobody told her the snake was bad. He compares it to people born yesterday with the knowledge of an infant, handed a fork and told not to touch the outlet. In his view, of course the baby touches it.
Why do churches give thought-stopping answers to hard questions?
A guest raised in a high demand LDS (Mormon) family says she was a questioner from early childhood and never had a personal testimony. The answers she got were thought stoppers, such as pray about it, God works in mysterious ways, ask your pastor, or wait and ask God after you die. The hosts add that discussions drifted into tangents until the original question was forgotten. Debating has taught them to steer back and ask people to admit when they do not know.
Did Jesus exist, and can the Bible’s claims about him be proven?
The host says these are two separate questions. On existence, he suggests there may have been several doomsday messianic prophets whose stories were smooshed together, the amalgamation theory, though he leans a little toward mythicism. Jada says she does not mind either way. On proof, he says the cross fragments in St. Peter’s Basilica and the crown of thorns at Notre Dame are not verified, and the gospels describe contradicting tombs. He adds that real locations prove nothing, since Spider-Man comics also name real places.
Who wrote the gospels, and does the oldest fragment prove it?
Erin looked up the John Rylands fragment of the Gospel of John, known as Papyrus P52, and said it is dated only to the first half of the second century. That is not old enough to come from an apostle, so she does not see how it confirms anything. The host agrees that older fragments could surface, but says nothing exists written by anyone who knew Jesus. He adds that scholars, including Christian ones, know the gospels are anonymous.
Transcript highlights
Selected passages from the live stream, lightly edited for readability. Click a section time to jump to that part of the video.
Eve, the creation story, and deconstruction stories
We’re reading the Bible, chapter and verse, and asking, is any of it true? Tonight is our inaugural episode of Ms.Behaved, the show where we talk about women and religion. We are here to take some calls and talk about how Eve was framed.
[Commercial break]
I think that was one of the first topics I got into when I started reading the Bible, which was the creation story and how unfair the whole situation was. It was dumb and unnecessary, and Eve was given the short end of the stick. You could have put the tree anywhere. You could have put the snake anywhere. But what you did was put the tree in front of them, then put the snake in front of them, then let the snake talk to Eve. You didn’t tell Eve that the snake was bad. You said, good luck, little baby. These people were born like yesterday, with the knowledge of an infant. And you gave them a fork in an outlet and said, don’t touch the outlet. Of course the baby is going to touch it if you give a baby a fork and nothing but an outlet.
Let’s go through our introductions and our deconstruction history. I’d like you to start, if you wouldn’t mind.
Well, my deconstruction story, I guess there isn’t really a story. I was raised kind of secular, and I started really disliking the Bible and Abrahamic religions when I was about 10 to 12, because I started watching NonStampCollector. He is hilarious, and what a great name, am I right? I was raised secular but also kind of spiritual, and they say how you’re raised is kind of how you stay, or the religion you fall into. That’s more or less what happened to me. I’m still spiritual, which I think is a bit of the reason I can find some middle ground in the atheist community. You’ve taken from the Bible, so it’s okay, maybe there’s still a God, and then you guys can take it from there.
My background is very different. I was raised in a very devout Christian family, in a very high demand religion. I was raised LDS, which is Mormon, by the way, if anybody doesn’t recognize the acronym. I mean mainstream Mormon, not the prairie dress Mormons, though the regular Mormons are still pretty weird, let’s be realistic. My family, my parents especially, read about the church incredibly often, and went to church three times a week. When I went to high school, I was required to take a Bible class every morning before school at 6 a.m. Of course, it wasn’t just a Bible class, it was all of the scriptures, Mormon scripture. The thing is, I never really had a personal testimony of it myself. I was a questioner from very early on. None of it made sense to me.
I kept asking these questions, and frustratingly enough, the answers I got were almost all thought stoppers. It was, well, maybe you should pray about that, or, I don’t think that’s something you need to worry about, honey, or, God works in mysterious ways, ask your pastor. I never got that last one, actually, because I was asking my bishop, so he couldn’t send me up the ladder. Well, he could have, but I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t. My state president wasn’t interested in answering questions from a six-year-old. One of my least favorite answers was, we can’t know that here on this earth, you’re going to have to wait and ask God once you pass. But you better believe in him now, or you won’t get there and get your questions answered, you little brat. The second part was implied, not said straight out, but even a child can see what they’re saying.
That particular answer usually came at the end of the questioning, when they were like, shut up and leave me alone. It was basically, I don’t know the answers to these questions, kid, and you’re making me really uncomfortable that you keep asking them. At least the people I talked to didn’t mind saying, well, I don’t know, but God does, and I trust God. I’ve never gotten the “I don’t know” from anyone. I always get, well, there are answers, but you just have to ask your pastor.
Part 2
There was never an official. I’m uncertain. I can’t tell you. It was always there’s an answer to your question. We just have to figure it out. Let’s just read through those scripture together and we need to find the context and then we would just go on and on and on and then a tangent and then the next subject and the next subject. And then we’d forget about the original question in the first place, right? That was the other thing they did to me a lot. They they managed to change the subject on me frequently. Yeah, which is why, like now that I’ve debated, it’s such a blessing because I can keep track of these people
trying to take me in different tangents. I can go back to the original. Hey, no, we’re not switching topics yet. We’re not getting towards the next subject. We still haven’t answered this original question. Can you at least admit that you don’t know what the answer is? Thank goodness. Because that’s deconstruction zone where he goes. He knows too much for me. I mean, like I love listening to Justin just annihilate all these Christians on the Bible because he knows it better than any of them. And it’s fun because I kind of I kind of know it more than a lot of them, too. So it’s it’s fun when I was just talking to somebody today. Actually,
I was at the store a little earlier and something came up. Somehow I mentioned that to the cashier that I’m a streamer and the cashier asked, what kind of streaming do you do? And I live in a small town. So sometimes I don’t answer that question. I’ll admit. But this time I did. I’m like, I’m feeling great content. Yeah. And somebody else in the store overheard me, followed me out the door when I left the store and said, if you met Jesus today, what would you ask him? Why you whack like that? Why you were strangled? Well, I was very nice. He was being nice to me. And I’m like, you know what? I think
if Jesus Christ, the God, came down before me and I knew he was God somehow. I knew he was Jesus, the Christ. I would ask him why his personality changed so much from the Old Testament to the New Testament. And why are you saying that this man said, what are you talking about? And I’m like, well, you know, the Old Testament is full of really terrible things that God condones. Rape, slavery, incest, genocide, sex slavery. I mean, just terrible, terrible things. And he says, what are you talking about? And I’m like, at this point, I’m like, you know, I’m sorry, I have to get home. I would love to talk about this to you another
time, because this is somebody I actually bump into quite frequently. It was at my 7 -Eleven, my local 7 -Eleven. So, you know, you run into the corner store. But I’m just I was just I’m like, if you’d like to talk about another time when I have a little more time, but I’m in a big hurry today. I’m so sorry. And also just like slipping in, like, oh, by the way, your religion is absolutely horrendous. And then like, OK, I think about that and just like slip them your business card. Yeah, the thing is, is I was I was I really, really wanted to say to him, well, maybe you should try reading the Bible.
Have you ever thought I have this big recommendation? Have you ever heard of this book? This book, and it’s actually if you start from page one, it’s going to be exactly where you need to be. And then just just go from there. Actually, page one probably will prove our points. Right. Just page one. I think I even I have it right here. I think he creates like dark and light night and day, different things like that, like four different times. At first, I was like, oh, he did it twice. He did it three times. It’s like four different times. I need to see how many times I highlighted it. Yeah. And the creation story is
Technical Trouble and Bible Talk
Most of this section was taken up by technical problems with the stream, including lag on the studio display, a router reboot, and a producer explaining that the lag was on the host’s end rather than the show’s. The host also noted that no theists had called in after 31 minutes and suggested viewers might be too scared to join. Viewer m3xcon was invited to call in and talk about the Bible, with Eve or women and religion preferred.
The host recalled an early morning Bible study where someone would recite a scripture and the group would race to find it first. He said finding scriptures was one of the things they practiced, but admitted he could not do it reliably now.
A chat comment claimed the Christian Bible was written by Jews, and the host agreed. He said, “Well, of course it was,” and added that it was the Jewish Bible for one, and that it was not written by Christians.
Blocked Troll Caller and Stalking Advice
I’ve got the pharaoh’s curse. There’s fire between my legs. Me burrito esta no bueno. A full bladder I fear. Abram’s lies and Sarai’s touch have left me itching front to rear. Me burrito esta no bueno. It burns when I pee. Abram had the crotch cooties and gave his sister’s wife to me. I’ve got the pharaoh’s curse. A case of penile plague. I’ve got the pharaoh’s curse. There’s fire between my legs.
All right. Good morning, everyone. We’re back. I am the lovely Miss Non Sequitur. Okay. I’m not really, and I’m no good substitute for her either. I’m the amazing Super Chris, and we’ve got Janet joining us. Janet is a host trainee, as we build our show. People wanted to call in and talk about stuff, and now you can call and talk about stuff.
Chris George, are you the Chris George? He’s been blocked because he incessantly trolls the chat. He posts copies of the same thing over and over again, copy pasting into the chat. Whenever I blocked him from the chat, he went to the YouTube video comments and started pasting the same thing there. Finally I blocked him from the whole channel so he couldn’t post that stuff. So he started sending me emails every day after the show, and he’s done it for over a year now.
Oh, Chris. Something’s wrong with this man. I did set it up so it instantly chucks all his stuff in the trash, but I still have it in my mail service. It’s a number of eleven, twelve, fifteen, because he’s sending more emails every day. Chris, sweetheart, that’s very stalky. We shouldn’t be doing stuff like that. The human body only has the capability to give so much energy. Why put so much energy into someone who isn’t even that important in your life?
I told him, talk to me. You’re a real person, right? I asked him to just stop. Is it my fault? Nope. Fantastic. He’s been persistent, and this is well over a year now, even today. We haven’t seen him for months, but when he originally started doing it, he was emailing me from his work. I thought about calling his work and saying they had a person stalking people from their email address. It was just copy pasting the same stuff over and over again. If he would just talk, I wouldn’t even blame you for telling someone.
I wouldn’t blame you either. If he’s emailing from work, I’m sure the boss would want to know, and no one would blame you for making that known. That’s true. That’s not okay to do, especially at work. I first said I should report it. If it doesn’t stop, I might consider it, because clearly this is every
Parody Ads, Chicken Video and Community Chat
[Commercial break]
Let’s play Flock’s YouTube video of Little Baby Nugget. Flock is the Flockmeister. He owns all the chickens in the entire world, and this is one of his tiny little baby chickens. So the white chicken is mama chicken, and the little brown chicken is actually a 38 day old baby. She’s gotten too big to fit under her mama now. Look at how cute she is. Her name is Nugget, and our beloved Chemical Squirrel named her.
Nugget or something else, man. Yeah, it’s a perfect name for it. That’s adorable, and that’s also really funny. My brother used to have pigs, and he named them Bacon and Acorn. They just said Acorn? Bacon, and then you’re like, and Acorn. Well, they ate acorns. The other one was named Leaf. The other one was Ham. I think they did name one of them Ham.
Oh, God, right. I’m so jealous. I hate him. I mean, me too. I know. I hate him. He’s the coolest guy I’ve ever met, and I’m envious, and I admire him. Well, let’s stop glazing Chris, okay? If we start talking too nice about Chris, he’ll be like, oh, you know what? It’s a reward just to hang out with me. You guys can no longer have your juice boxes and pizza parties. No more cookies for you.
That’s the thing. We do see that that would be the point. In his mind, if we’re too nice to him, if we love him too much, he’ll get him much like God, actually. Is Chris our God? Guys, figure it out. Oh my God, he’s in the back room. He’s in the background listening to us glaze him. I’m going to go somewhere else. You’re giving me a complex, blushing here.
No, I actually knew that he was there the whole time. I just wanted to say that, behind his back, I was just super happy to have him around. He’s a great guy, and I really appreciate him a lot. This community has meant a lot to me, not just Chris. Chris created this community for me, but I found it when I was in an incredibly dark place a few years ago, and it’s been really supportive and loving and fantastic. When I say we have the best community and chat on YouTube, I am not lying. It is amazing.
Just the atheist community in general, I was in the same situation. I was going through a big move from Alaska to here, and I just happened to be in chat more often because I was really kind of upset about it. It’s a good place.
[Commercial break]
Okay, so we’re going to refresh our browsers, and even though it’s early and we just played a commercial and then a YouTube video, I’m going to play one more. Any requests for what we should play next? Espresso Jack is in the chat. Hello, Jack. Jack’s smart. I like Jack. Come on, guys. Vote for what? We got a request for postmortem baptism kits, which is actually one of my favorites, so I’m going to go ahead and do it.
[Commercial break]
Hi, guys. Welcome back. Salty Namekian is in the chat. He is a regular theist who joins our chat, and we always appreciate the theists in our chat. They make our chat more exciting. Salty, if you would like to call in, we are having a call-in show. The link is in the description, and it’s also right here on the screen. I cannot read it because my eyes are not that good, but it’s thedamshow.com slash call-in, right? Yes, it is thedamshow.com. The chat goes so fast, I missed it. Please do those things. Flock, tell all the people to get on the damn phone and call the damn show.
It’s a good one. We might go ahead and keep that one running, The Daily Atheist Misbehaving Show. The Damn Behaving Show. We’re going to have to make some tag lines. Everyone, theme songs below, logos in the chat. Yes, spam your suggestions for tag lines. I want to hear some tag lines, and we all cheer in the head to credits.
So Salty, are you too afraid to talk to women about your beliefs? Is that what’s going on here
Historical Jesus, relics, and gospel authorship
Marlin opened by asking whether Jesus Christ was real, whether he existed, and whether what he did in the Bible is true. The host pointed out that these are two separate questions and suggested starting with whether he was real. He said there is some evidence that there may have been either one man or several men who were doomsday messianic prophets at the time, most likely several men. He explained that all the stories got smooshed together, and that became Jesus Christ. He leans a little toward mythicism, wondering whether there was any Jesus Christ at all, but at the moment the theory he believes is the amalgamation theory.
Jada agreed with that view but said she personally does not mind either way whether he was real. Since she does not believe in the religion, she does not care whether there was a teacher who started the movement or whether the story was built from earlier Greek or Roman material. She said she usually focuses on the second question, which is whether what he did is true. Whether or not he was there, she already does not believe in the religion, so at that point he is just a guy in history who may or may not have existed.
The host then asked whether the biblical events about Jesus are real. Someone answered absolutely, but only if it can be proven. The host replied that it cannot be proven and that there is no proof. He brought up Tacitus, and when the discussion turned to the cross of Jesus, Marlin said there were fragments. The host disagreed: nothing has been scientifically verified to be old enough or made of the right material. He noted that there are pieces in St. Peter’s Basilica in Rome, but none of them have been independently verified. We have no idea what those little bits of wood are made of.
The same went for the crown of thorns, which is said to be kept at Notre Dame de Paris in France. The host said the claims about these relics are not true, and that the fragments of the cross and the things in Jerusalem are not verified either. Marlin then asked whether, even if there was a man who died on a cross and there are all these things, we could grant that he actually resurrected and was the son of God based on the empty tomb. The host answered that the tomb was never found. There are three different tombs, and the tomb stories in each gospel contradict one another. He added that there are a bunch of things that can go wrong when you talk about the tomb, and that empty tombs could mean nothing at all. They could just be empty tombs, and that is all they are.
Marlin then asked about the locations in the Bible that can be seen today. The host responded that Spider-Man has real locations too, and that does not make it a true story. When Marlin said Spider-Man does not have a Bible, the host explained the analogy: the Spider-Man comics are the equivalent of the Bible. Believers say we can trust the Bible because real places are mentioned in it, so why can’t we trust the Spider-Man comics, which also feature real places, and conclude that they must be true as well?
The host connected the discussion to the Roman Catholic Church, the first pope as St. Peter the apostle, and the ministry of Jesus Christ in the Bible. He asked whether that would be Marlin’s evidence that Jesus resurrected and was the son of God. Marlin said that if he can be convinced of that, then he can find more middle ground, but some of these things are not as relevant to him personally. The host said he did not think that was the evidence that anyone is personally looking for.
The host then asked what the group thought of the fragment of the Gospel of John held in the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England, and whether it is the same case. Erin looked up an AI overview and identified it as Papyrus P52. She said it is only dated to the first half of the second century, so it is certainly not old enough to be a writing of an apostle of Jesus Christ. She said she does not see how it confirms the stance at all. The host agreed that there could be other fragments, but until older ones are found that could actually have been written by someone who knew Jesus, the evidence is not there.
The host pressed the point further. We have nothing written even by anyone who ever knew Jesus Christ, and Marlin has been told this before.
Gospel Authorship and the Temple Prophecy
The Apostle Matthew didn’t write Matthew. Why are you nodding your head? Are you saying that he did write it? I thought the Apostles of Jesus Christ were the ones who wrote the Gospels, but every biblical scholar out there, including Christian biblical scholars, knows that the Gospels are anonymous. Is there a possibility that they were written by the Apostles? Maybe. I think that is one schol
Part 8
I’m ordering my Soul Sword today. Thank you, Father Flanagan. Thank you, Nana. No mercy, baby. It’s what Jesus would want. No mercy. Don’t go into battle for the Lord with that junky, rusty old sword. Have the Archangel Michael craft you a weapon forged in the heart of heaven itself. Thank you, Father Flanagan. Father Flanagan’s Soul Swords are part of our Kill -em -all -and -let -dod -sort -of -mouth lack -of -tolerance outreach program. Come into a Walmart near you. Hi, guys. All right. So the Soul Swords, let’s remember that they do come in a special bundle with the postmortem baptismal kits if you really want to set your loved one up to be a member
of the heavenly horde. There you go. Okay. Even if they’re atheists. All right. I am going to let in Billy Bob. Hello, Billy Bob. Let’s see if we still get an echo. Can you hear us, Billy Bob? I have changed it to my headphones, so that should be fine now. Oh, let’s see. No echo. Yay! Well, not much anyway. Oh, come on. I’m trying my best here. You wouldn’t believe I’m set up by heaven. Oh, I’m well aware of your setup. Oh, no. It’s completely changed. I removed windows from my entire house as of about three weeks ago. They’re tracking everything. It’s all completely different. And my work upgraded all their computers, and then, no
joke, Arden, they give me 30 computers to take home with me. Jeez Louise. I’ll send over my address, don’t worry. Sorry, I’ll put in the house chat. How do I pronounce your name? Jedax? Today? I get Jedax a lot. It’s Jada. See, that’s why I’m thinking of just going my ex -angelical. Everyone gets that so much easier. Ex -angelical is… But I like Jada. Everyone just says Jada, so… Sorry, go on. Send me your frickin’ address. I have a whole new email. He said I’ve just been giving out these laptops. No! I’ve done it for a friend there not too long. I found four gigabytes of DDR4 memory just around between the front passenger seat
of my car and the center console yesterday when I was in the car. There’s so much. Well, we’re going to throw it all in the bin and you’ve been helping out. So do you want it? Yeah. You just have boxes of laptops in your trunk or something? What’s going on? That’s the most sus -looking thing. If I was a cop… If I was a cop, you’d be pulled over so quick. Why do you serve? Why do you have 30 laptops in the trunk? I keep the pallet of computers at work and I take them home bit by bit. Oh, so you’d sit on your couch. So, like, no one gets suspicious. Within four foot of
me right now, I have an i7 -8G doing my AI and my local stuff. I have an i5 from the computer. I have an Xbox One X. I have an original Xbox 360 from 2006. I’ve got a Ryzen 7 5700X with a 3060. I’ve got an M4000 and an M4000 RTX 8G sitting with an i7 10th gen. Those aren’t words. You can’t trick me. No, yeah, I… You can’t afford to be. I’ve got enough of this. You’re telling me now you’re speaking sentences. No. I was supposed to come in and pretend to be a fucking redneck and shite all of it. I recognize the words, but I don’t understand the meaning. No, I’m pretty sure
there was letters and numbers in there, but there’s no way that those are supposed to go together. I don’t appreciate you trying to explain me like that. That’s like when gun guys start talking about their stuff. We’re like, there’s this M14 G6 with the scope M50. Those aren’t… Right, and I’m like… I got you with that 950. Oh, no, that exists. If that exists, it’s got a 14 times idle fucking… Wait, Billy Bob, are you here to debate? Oh, no, not at all. He’s a friendly. No, no, no, no, no. I was supposed to come in and be Billy Bob, the redneck that loves Jesus, and voted for Trump yesterday or Tuesday. That’s where I
Berenstain Bears Mandela Effect Joke
The host jokes about being a happy customer of Conspirowin. He says he got everybody to believe the books were always the Berenstain Bears, when he doesn’t really know the Berenstain Bears. He says we all know it was originally the Berenstain Bears, and that we all know that inside ourselves. He adds that Conspirowin helped him change all the books in every house, including books left over from the 80s in his mom’s attic. “Can you imagine?”
He tells his guest that he doesn’t appreciate being told the books really say Berenstain, because he was about to go look around his house for one. He insists that Conspirowin changed them. “Because secretly, in real life, it really was Berenstain. We all know that. I know it. We all know that inside ourselves.”
He then reasons that if everyone knows it, it has to be true. “This is very clear. But all the evidence says Berenstain, so.” He finishes the bit with a joke: “As we know from the Christian religion, if the majority believes something, it has to be true.”
[Commercial break]
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